General Mission Possible

[Flavorflav]

Hi all,

I am judging this event tomorrow and taking a last look through the rules I ran into a couple of issues that I would appreciate some advisory opinions on.

1. The way 3.b.i is phrased implies to me that devices which do not have 4.a as the first task and 4.m as the final task have a construction violation and would be scored in the second tier. Agreed?
2. 3.c allows "mechanical switches" but does not define the term. I could make an argument for or against mechanical relays and reed switches. My gut reaction was to allow the latter but not the former, but I can't justify the distinction and so I am currently inclined to allow both. Any thoughts?

[GoNerdHerd]

I have a question regarding parallel tasks. For the special task, a counterweight falls, lifting a small mas up a ramp. The counterweight itself triggers the next task, however, as the mass moves up the ramp, it tightens a string which prevents granular material from falling out. Is this a parallel or dead end task?

[Flavorflav]

I have a question regarding parallel tasks. For the special task, a counterweight falls, lifting a small mas up a ramp. The counterweight itself triggers the next task, however, as the mass moves up the ramp, it tightens a string which prevents granular material from falling out. Is this a parallel or dead end task?

As described I wouldn't think so, but I'm not sure I understand the scenario. Have you already completed task j and are simply shutting it off? I wouldn't have a problem with that. If that isn't what you are doing, though, I can't offer an opinion based on what you have said.

[chalker]

Hi all,

I am judging this event tomorrow and taking a last look through the rules I ran into a couple of issues that I would appreciate some advisory opinions on.

1. The way 3.b.i is phrased implies to me that devices which do not have 4.a as the first task and 4.m as the final task have a construction violation and would be scored in the second tier. Agreed?
2. 3.c allows "mechanical switches" but does not define the term. I could make an argument for or against mechanical relays and reed switches. My gut reaction was to allow the latter but not the former, but I can't justify the distinction and so I am currently inclined to allow both. Any thoughts?

Unofficially, yes to both your questions / inclinations.

[GoNerdHerd]

What happens is, a pin is yanked out releasing a counterweight that falls. The counterweight lands on a mousetrap to begin the next task. However, as the weight falls, it moves a mass up a ramp. The mass does not make it to the top of the ramp, so I thought it woud be a dead-end task. I then added a string to the back of the mass so that as it moves up the ramp, it tightens the string which will prevent spills of granular material in the final task.

[Flavorflav]

Yeah, I don't think that is going to fly. It sounds like the mousetrap causes the next action, making the ramp a dead-end task. Reaching the top of the ramp doesn't matter at all, it's the fact the the mass on the ramp doesn't cause the next action that is problematic. It has to ba a linear series of operations. Adding the string (and I'm still not sure what that is doing, but I am assuming it is required for proper operation of the final task) simply turns dead-end into parallel.

BTW, thank you for the reply, Chalker. It takes a lot of pressure off to have confirmation, even if unofficial.

[chalker]

What happens is, a pin is yanked out releasing a counterweight that falls. The counterweight lands on a mousetrap to begin the next task. However, as the weight falls, it moves a mass up a ramp. The mass does not make it to the top of the ramp, so I thought it woud be a dead-end task. I then added a string to the back of the mass so that as it moves up the ramp, it tightens the string which will prevent spills of granular material in the final task.

Another way to look at this is to examine the wording of the rules, which say to pull the mass up the ramp at least 10cm, then cause the next action. Say the string between the counterweight and mass were to break, the mousetrap would still be triggered, causing the next action. Thus the pulling of the mass up the ramp doesn't seem to cause the next action in your design (standard caveat this is not the place for official clarifications.....)

[GoNerdHerd]

Okay thank you both very much. Regionals is tomorrow so even if it means I lose 30 points that's better than being second-tiered.

[Orchdork]

Would anyone consider a score in the range of 850-950 a good competitive score for regionals?

Yes that is a good score for regionals. What place did you get?

[Orchdork]

We didn't get all the results yet, but I know we got higher than 10th place (higher meaning 11th, 12th etc.)

Well I'm sure you tried your best. Did your team make it to state because if so then you can improve your device. Last year for Experimental Design my team came last but at state we came in 3rd.

[Orchdork]

My group and I did pretty well at regionals with this event (5th), but are not getting a lot of possible points because it runs too fast, only 7 or 8 seconds. Any ideas on how to slow it down before states?

use a rack and pinion. We have made ours adjustable so it can take up to 1 and a half minutes just for that task.

[GoNerdHerd]

Would anyone consider a score in the range of 850-950 a good competitive score for regionals?

Yes that is a good score for regionals. What place did you get?

14th because to make a long story short our mousetraps went off early.

[mnstrviola]

We got 380 . 10th place or worse.

EDIT: and yeah, we're going to states! but I might not do MP at states.

[Flavorflav]

A question for the experienced supervisors out there: at regionals on Saturday, a student's TSL said that their lever for task C was supposed to pull a string, then as an separate unscored task had the string activate a mousetrap. During their run the mousetrap failed to activate, so I did not score the lever. The student argued that since the lever moved, it pulled the string and completed the task as described in the TSL. They won anyway so I did not need to revisit my judgment, but I am curious as to what you all think.

Also, I had two devices that were designed to use hydraulics because they thought only hazardous liquids were forbidden. They didn't fill their reservoir, took a touch and stayed in the first tier, but I think it would avoid confusion if the rule were reworded. Perhaps "Flames, liquids, hazardous materials and hazardous spills are not permitted?" BTW, what did you have in mind when you specified "hazardous spills?" Ball bearings on the floor?

[chalker]

A question for the experienced supervisors out there: at regionals on Saturday, a student's TSL said that their lever for task C was supposed to pull a string, then as an separate unscored task had the string activate a mousetrap. During their run the mousetrap failed to activate, so I did not score the lever. The student argued that since the lever moved, it pulled the string and completed the task as described in the TSL. They won anyway so I did not need to revisit my judgment, but I am curious as to what you all think.

Unofficially of course, I don't see how pulling a string requires an IMA greater than 1 for task c... so the conditions of task c weren't met.