Keep the Heat B/Thermodynamics C

[harryk]

I know this isn't the place for official clarifications, but would popcorn count as organic granular material?

[chalker7]

I know this isn't the place for official clarifications, but would popcorn count as organic granular material?

I would allow that if I were running an event, but submit a clarification on the official website for a real response.

[Frogger4907]

But popcorn isn't granular.
The rules don't state anything about measuring the temperature after you put the water in the beaker (for initial temperature). You can't take the temperature from the hot water bath do to heat lost during the transfer being an inconsistent variable.

[chalker7]

But popcorn isn't granular.
The rules don't state anything about measuring the temperature after you put the water in the beaker (for initial temperature). You can't take the temperature from the hot water bath do to heat lost during the transfer being an inconsistent variable.

This is because the event would then be too unwieldy to run at large contests. The way I (and the other people who worked on these rules) look at it, once the water is given to the students, it's theirs to do with as they please. If they take a long time to load the water into the device, that is on them.

What is your definition of granular? Why does popcorn not fit into that definition?

[Frogger4907]

But popcorn isn't granular.
The rules don't state anything about measuring the temperature after you put the water in the beaker (for initial temperature). You can't take the temperature from the hot water bath do to heat lost during the transfer being an inconsistent variable.

This is because the event would then be too unwieldy to run at large contests. The way I (and the other people who worked on these rules) look at it, once the water is given to the students, it's theirs to do with as they please. If they take a long time to load the water into the device, that is on them.

What is your definition of granular? Why does popcorn not fit into that definition?

granular |ˈgranyələr|
adjective
1 resembling or consisting of small grains or particles.
• having a roughened surface or structure.
granular
adjective
two new inches of granular snow: powder, powdered, powdery, grainy, granulated, gritty.


So what about scoring purposes?!

[chalker7]

granular |ˈgranyələr|
adjective
1 resembling or consisting of small grains or particles.
• having a roughened surface or structure.
granular
adjective
two new inches of granular snow: powder, powdered, powdery, grainy, granulated, gritty.


So what about scoring purposes?!

And popcorn still isn't granular? I think you're getting caught up in what constitutes "small".
I believe the rules are clear as to what temperature will be used as the initial temperature for scoring purposes, but if you still have a question you should submit it for an official clarification.

[Frogger4907]

both grain and molecule represent the smallest possible unit. but what if I put popcorn in a blender? then the pieces got smaller... but they still aren't "the smallest possible quantity"

[chalker7]

both grain and molecule represent the smallest possible unit. but what if I put popcorn in a blender? then the pieces got smaller... but they still aren't "the smallest possible quantity"

What? The smallest unit possible is different from your earlier definition. By your new definition, only subatomic particles are granular.
Also, if you put rice in a blender it would get smaller (and eventually reach a powder)....but I highly doubt you would argue against the granularity of rice.

[chalker]

Regarding the definition of granular materials, as usual, Wikipedia provides some clarity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granular_material

"A granular material is a conglomeration of discrete solid, macroscopic particles characterized by a loss of energy whenever the particles interact (the most common example would be friction when grains collide). The constituents that compose granular material must be large enough such that they are not subject to thermal motion fluctuations. Thus, the lower size limit for grains in granular material is about 1 µm. On the upper size limit, the physics of granular materials may be applied to ice floes where the individual grains are icebergs and to asteroid belts of the solar system with individual grains being asteroids.

Some examples of granular materials are nuts, coal, sand, rice, coffee, corn flakes, fertilizer, and ball bearings. Powders are a special class of granular material due to their small particle size, which makes them more cohesive and more easily suspended in a gas. "

[chalker]

The rules don't state anything about measuring the temperature after you put the water in the beaker (for initial temperature). You can't take the temperature from the hot water bath do to heat lost during the transfer being an inconsistent variable.

If you look closely at the scoring formulas, you'll note that none of them use 'initial temperature' for anything.

[AlvinXai]

Is rubber (synthetic or organic) a legal material for the insulating device?

[JSGandora]

Also, would cotton be granular?

[ichaelm]

Cotton is organic and fibrous, so it's legal. Rubber is neither granular or fibrous, so even if it's organic, it's illegal.

[JSGandora]

Thanks. Also, does dust affect the insulation? I'm worried about it because some of my materials may be old and be dusty (still haven't decided if I should use it). I think I read somewhere that dust affects the R-value because it muddles the air and it certainly affects house insulation.

[Frogger4907]

The rules don't state anything about measuring the temperature after you put the water in the beaker (for initial temperature). You can't take the temperature from the hot water bath do to heat lost during the transfer being an inconsistent variable.

If you look closely at the scoring formulas, you'll note that none of them use 'initial temperature' for anything.

I see that now for the retention score because it is measured against the beaker not in the device. But looking at the prediction score, How are students supposed to have any possible way to accurately predict temperature without the temperature of the water after they have placed the beaker into the device? otherwise it will take a different amount of time to take the water from the bath and put it in the beaker, and put the beaker into the device, which will result in a different starting temperature. The heat lost during the transfer will be a huge variable in the starting temperature, because the water cools fairly quickly.