7 seniors on a team?

7 seniors on a team?

Postby kiwisalad on Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:27 pm

If we have 7 seniors on the team (of the 15) then could we have an alternate who is a senior?
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby rocketman1555 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:21 pm

probably, since they wouldn't actually be competing, but i don't actually know
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby eak227 on Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:49 am

Yes. Only 7 of the 15 official team members can be seniors. Alternate events don't actually count. However, you can't actually use him in the true sense of the word alternate. Ie, if one of your 8 underclassmen got sick, he would not be allowed to sub in for them.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby fleet130 on Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:10 pm

kiwisalad wrote:If we have 7 seniors on the team (of the 15) then could we have an alternate who is a senior?


There is no such thing as an alternate in the "official" rules. A team consists only of the 15 competitors identified as team members.

The identities of team members may be changed up until the published deadline. They may be replaced by anyone who meets the qualifications for competing (i.e. A student within the proper grade levels who attends the school the team represents). The overall team make-up must also satisfy the requirements of the rules such as the limitation on the number of 12th-graders.

At any given tournament there may be reasons why "alternates" in the 12th grade would not be allowed (tournaments might have trial events which alternates may compete in and are counted toward the teams overall score.

Since this is not covered by the rules, the only way to get a definite answer is to address the question to the organizers of the tournament where you will be competing.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby rocketman1555 on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:08 pm

fleet130 wrote:
kiwisalad wrote:If we have 7 seniors on the team (of the 15) then could we have an alternate who is a senior?


There is no such thing as an alternate in the "official" rules. A team consists only of the 15 competitors identified as team members.

The identities of team members may be changed up until the published deadline. They may be replaced by anyone who meets the qualifications for competing (i.e. A student within the proper grade levels who attends the school the team represents). The overall team make-up must also satisfy the requirements of the rules such as the limitation on the number of 12th-graders.

At any given tournament there may be reasons why "alternates" in the 12th grade would not be allowed (tournaments might have trial events which alternates may compete in and are counted toward the teams overall score.

Since this is not covered by the rules, the only way to get a definite answer is to address the question to the organizers of the tournament where you will be competing.


Trial events aren't counted in the score, they are just there so alternates have something to do and can get medals. They shouldn't count toward the teams score
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby Pleiades on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:16 pm

They are in some places though.

In my state teams enter alternate teams and the alternates compete in all 23 events and their papers get graded and they are rewarded ribbons for places 1-3 and then they announce the overall alternate winners. This is for Div B at least so the 7 seniors rule doesnt really apply but the 5 9th grader rule does but that's not to worry because my team only has 3 9th graders.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby dickyjones on Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:25 pm

I believe New York counts their trial events towards the total score. And Wisconsin SO is kind of strange as well and you can have 'trial events' count towards the score if you choose to. Really that's more of a wording issue, though, since those aren't really 'trial' events at those competitions; they're just considered that by the nats people. Most likely you'll be able to have your seniors compete in trial events, but it's never a bad idea to double check with someone who actually has control over the competition.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby andrewwski on Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:11 pm

Yes, as New York goes, there's 25 events to choose from. You must pick 18. The trial events are counted the same way as regular events if you choose them as part of your 18. If they're in the 7 that you don't compete in, then they don't count.

Now, in my region at least, and I think in all of New York, alternates are really not defined. You can have a team of 15 members, with a maximum of 7 seniors, compete during competition. If one of your "planned" competitors cannot compete, you may substitute an "alternate," but, the way it is seen is that they're the exact same as any other team member.

So you could not have a sophomore fall sick on the morning of competition and put in a senior in his place if you already have 7, as then you'd have 8.

However, you do not need to be a team member to attend and "try" the 7 events that you chose not to count. So you could send anyone to those events, because they're not part of the 15 on the actual roster.

eak227 has it exactly correct.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby fleet130 on Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:18 pm

The point is that the organizers of each tournament can (and do) make up their own rules. You can't take anything anyone here tells you as gospel. The only way to be sure is to contact the tournament you will be competing in (and that's only if they don't decide to change it later). This is true, even for the written rules, published in the rulebook!
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby Flavorflav on Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:02 pm

andrewwski wrote:Yes, as New York goes, there's 25 events to choose from. You must pick 18. The trial events are counted the same way as regular events if you choose them as part of your 18. If they're in the 7 that you don't compete in, then they don't count.

Now, in my region at least, and I think in all of New York, alternates are really not defined. You can have a team of 15 members, with a maximum of 7 seniors, compete during competition. If one of your "planned" competitors cannot compete, you may substitute an "alternate," but, the way it is seen is that they're the exact same as any other team member.

So you could not have a sophomore fall sick on the morning of competition and put in a senior in his place if you already have 7, as then you'd have 8.

However, you do not need to be a team member to attend and "try" the 7 events that you chose not to count. So you could send anyone to those events, because they're not part of the 15 on the actual roster.

eak227 has it exactly correct.


Actually, andrewwski, I think 18/25 is only true in NYC. I believe both E. and W. L.I. do 18/20, and I think most other regions don't run all 25 either.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby dudeincolorado on Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:56 am

its probably best just to check with the tournament director
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby gneissisnice on Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:40 pm

Yeah, Easter L.I. is 18/20. There are 5 events not run at regionals that we have no choice of, and then 2 events to not run that we choose.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby andrewwski on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:35 pm

Flavorflav wrote:
andrewwski wrote:Yes, as New York goes, there's 25 events to choose from. You must pick 18. The trial events are counted the same way as regular events if you choose them as part of your 18. If they're in the 7 that you don't compete in, then they don't count.

Now, in my region at least, and I think in all of New York, alternates are really not defined. You can have a team of 15 members, with a maximum of 7 seniors, compete during competition. If one of your "planned" competitors cannot compete, you may substitute an "alternate," but, the way it is seen is that they're the exact same as any other team member.

So you could not have a sophomore fall sick on the morning of competition and put in a senior in his place if you already have 7, as then you'd have 8.

However, you do not need to be a team member to attend and "try" the 7 events that you chose not to count. So you could send anyone to those events, because they're not part of the 15 on the actual roster.

eak227 has it exactly correct.


Actually, andrewwski, I think 18/25 is only true in NYC. I believe both E. and W. L.I. do 18/20, and I think most other regions don't run all 25 either.


Way over here in Buffalo (Lake Erie/Niagara region), it's 18 of 25. We're also a large region (~35 schools).
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby binary010101 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:12 pm

I think we only had 3 trial events in PA last year. As for the 7 senior/5 freshman rule, I understand its necessity, but it made for HUGE problems last year. On our B team (that I was on), we had around 10-15 freshmen, 3 8th graders, and a LOT of 7th graders that didn't do much.
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Re: 7 seniors on a team?

Postby Glacierguy1 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:19 pm

This Year in West LI, we are doing 20/20, with 5 predetermined events out of the 23 national events+2 trials dropped
SAVE OUR GLACIERS.
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