Politics

[blue cobra]

Wherever you are on the political spectrum, discuss the issues in this thread.

To get started: health care; what should be done?

[AlphaTauri]

I think that we should scrap our current healthcare and make a new system. The US system is one of the least effective and most expensive healthcare systems in the world. Also, private insurers often refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions, who are often the people who need health insurance the most. I think there needs to be a public option so that there is competition in the healthcare market. Private insurers basically corner their own section of the market that no one else interferes with, so they can hike prices without fear of customers going to another company with cheaper insurance.

By the way, can we not start any personal arguments here? We want this thread to be a friendly debate, not a screaming match, right?

[blue cobra]

Our healthcare system is the best in the world. Only a small amount are not covered by insurance, and all are treated; and with quality unlike anywhere else. However, there are some problems, mostly cost. But why is it more expensive than many other countries? Partly because we create so many new technologies, drugs, and treatment. Years and years and millions of dollars go into designing these, so they obviously have to be expensive. But mostly, healthcare is expensive because of the government, so it is nonsensical to turn to the government for the answer. Not to mention that it is not the role of government to scrap our system of almost anything.

One reason healthcare is expensive is because it costs so much to be a doctor. They spend years at college, but they can only go to colleges approved by the government. Sounds like a monopoly to me. This is to "protect the patients," but really, once you become a doctor, you can practice any kind of medicine. A neurologist can take a look at someone's feet. If you didn't have to go through so much schooling to be a doctor, that would lower costs. Obviously, being a doctor requires much schooling, but if you could specialize in college, and only study a certain field, it would be cheaper. We need to protect the patients somewhat, but I think a system of testing before you get your medical license, or perhaps only a certain amount of time in a government approved school will do the trick.

Also, malpractice insurance is a serious problem. People can be doctors for years, never mess up, and still have to pay $30,000 a year in malpractice insurance. Imagine having to pay $30,000 to keep your job. Then if they make a mistake or miss something, they can be fired and sued for $70,000,000. They must try to avoid this fate by running many different tests, to be sure they are right with their diagnosis and treatment. This, too, drives up costs. Tort reform has been proven to combat this. When California implemented tort reform, health care costs for small businesses and others dropped significantly.

Then you have the cost of health insurance. Where you blame the companies, the government, again, is really the culprit. You can not buy insurance over state lines. There are 1,300 insurance companies in the country. In California, you can use 6. That is less than one half of one percent. If you had 1,300 companies competing nation wide, like with car insurance, you wouldn't be having these problems. Prices would drop to a range everyone could afford, and filing a claim wouldn't be so dificult. If they want to overcharge me, or deny my claim, I would have 1,300 other companies that would love my business. With many politicians attacking insurance companies profits, I'd like to point out that they really don't make much money. Their profit margins are around just 2-3%.

The public option, or the opt-in, opt-out, co-op, consumer option, whatever it's called this week, has been tried and failed. The current healthcare reform bill looks very much like Maine's Dirigo Health. It was projected to cover 31,000 uninsured Maine residents in the first year. In reality, only 8,600 people were covered. Taxes went up under it, and the Medicaid "savings" are rather unimpressive. Also, the public option is designed to lead to single-payer. The trademarks of single-payer of course being long waits, rationing of care, and high taxes.

What we need is real reform. Health insurance companies need to be able to compete over state lines. We need tort reform. People with their own healthcare plan, like people with medical savings accounts or who but their own insurance plan, should get the same tax breaks as people who get insurance through their employer. Our healthcare system has problems, but we can fix them without a government spending program that will inevitably cost more the next year than it did the last, and bankrupt us as a nation.

[googlyfrog]

Longest. Post. Ever.

But very well done. Bravo!

[blue cobra]

haha, thanks

"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the
depth of our answers."
-Carl Sagan

[denmarksoccer]

Our healthcare system is the best in the world. Only a small amount are not covered by insurance,

No, it's not. The WHO had a ranking that put the U.S.A. 37th in the world behind most other 'developed' countries. Also, there are actually about 40 million uninsured Americans, which I wouldn't call 'a small amount'.

I don't have time to go through the rest of your 'essay', but those were just two quick things that caught my eye.

[blue cobra]

The US has the best health care system IN MY OPINION. Better?
Take the 40 million people uninsured, take out the people that don't want insurance, the people that already could be covered by Medicaid, and people that aren't supposed to be here, and you wind up with probably around 20 million. Only 6.6% of the population. If only unemployment was that low And they still get care if they need it.

[AlphaTauri]

However, there are some problems, mostly cost. But why is it more expensive than many other countries? Partly because we create so many new technologies, drugs, and treatment. Years and years and millions of dollars go into designing these, so they obviously have to be expensive. But mostly, healthcare is expensive because of the government, so it is nonsensical to turn to the government for the answer.

I have to disagree with you on that. Sure the US has many advances in medical technology, but other countries, like, I don't know, France, have the same advances in medicine, with one big difference. The people there pay very little for their medical care. France does have much higher taxes than the US, but education and medical care are cheap or free. I would much rather pay higher taxes for the peace of mind that comes from not having to worry about affording medical care instead of paying less taxes but worrying about what would happen to my family if I became sick.

One reason healthcare is expensive is because it costs so much to be a doctor. They spend years at college, but they can only go to colleges approved by the government. Sounds like a monopoly to me. This is to "protect the patients," but really, once you become a doctor, you can practice any kind of medicine. A neurologist can take a look at someone's feet. If you didn't have to go through so much schooling to be a doctor, that would lower costs. Obviously, being a doctor requires much schooling, but if you could specialize in college, and only study a certain field, it would be cheaper. We need to protect the patients somewhat, but I think a system of testing before you get your medical license, or perhaps only a certain amount of time in a government approved school will do the trick.

Why shouldn't the government only let doctors go to certified schools? Otherwise, it would be possible for shoddy colleges to graduate "doctors" who don't really even know that much about medicine. But the main reason doctors have to go through so much schooling is because they have the well-being and often the lives of tens or hundreds of patients in their hands. Also, would you want your dermatologist to be allowed to be a brain surgeon without demonstrating their proficiency in surgery? I don't think so. However, I do agree with your idea of testing before recieving a medical liscense, to demonstrate their ability.


I'll reply to the rest when I have time and when my computer stops being weird.

[gyourkoshaven]

..take out the people that don't want insurance...

I'm positive that almost everyone wants insurance, just not everyone wants to pay for it.

We don't have the best system in the world, one of the Scandinavian countries (I'd probably go with Sweden) with government run care does. I'm not saying that it would make us better either...We may just be too big.

[denmarksoccer]

..take out the people that don't want insurance...

I'm positive that almost everyone wants insurance, just not everyone wants to pay for it.

We don't have the best system in the world, one of the Scandinavian countries (I'd probably go with Denmark) with government run care does. I'm not saying that it would make us better either...We may just be too big.

Wise choice, gyourko.

[blue cobra]

[<SNIP>with one big difference. The people there pay very little for their medical care.<SNIP>

In countries with single-payer, the government just decides what it's going to pay. So of course they are going to choose to pay less. It's still not the answer to our health care cost.

<SNIP>Why shouldn't the government only let doctors go to certified schools? <SNIP>

To make health care cheaper. As I said, there definitely needs to be a certification process for the reasons you mentioned. But if you can make their education cheaper and have proplerly educated doctors, it could bring down costs. The things I mentioned were just ideas to reach that goal.

..take out the people that don't want insurance...

I'm positive that almost everyone wants insurance, just not everyone wants to pay for it.

We don't have the best system in the world, one of the Scandinavian countries (I'd probably go with Sweden) with government run care does. I'm not saying that it would make us better either...We may just be too big.

Apparently, not everyone wants insurance. A portion of the uninsured people are people making over $70,000 a year; plenty of money for some type of insurance, but they choose not to. If they don't want to buy insurance, who are we to force them?

I'm sticking with my claim that we have the best health care in the world. Whenever you rank things, you need certain criteria, and the criteria used by certain groups put us low on the list, but with the criteria that I feel is important, America comes out on top.
______
I have a sincere question: Where in the Constitution does it give Congress the power to make a public option or a single-payer system?

[fmtiger124]

I'm sticking with my claim that we have the best health care in the world.

I am simply not going to bother.......it's to insane of a statement for me to bother trying

I have a sincere question: Where in the Constitution does it give Congress the power to make a public option or a single-payer system?

Where in the constitution does it give congress the power to do a lot of the things it does?
Heck if you read the powers it gives congress there are a lot of things congress does its as you would say "not allowed" to do.
For example: Social Security? Gun Laws? and a lot of other stuff
If we went strictly by what the constitution says we "can" do a lot of things would be a mess right now

EDIT: Also (thank you randomperson for this thought) how in the world would our founding fathers be able to foresee every possible kind of law we would need and put it in the constitution? If we had to amend the constitution every time we wanted to make a law where would we be?

[blue cobra]

So does the Constitution not matter!? Just because the Congress does something, that doesn't make it Constitutional!

Alien and Sedition Act: Unconstitutional; Congress passed it anyway
Patriot Act: Unconstitutional; Congress passed it anyway

SS is the epitome of idiocy.
As for gun control, the federal government is granted the power to regulate commerce between the states, including firearms.

The Constitution is for the federal government. If there are laws, which I can't think of any, that are needed but not granted to Congress, they are to be taken care of by the states. You live in a state, not a province. The states created the federal government, not the other way around. The states are responsible for governing their own people. If they feel health care should be provided by the government, the states can create whatever system they want. That's how you have universal health care in Massachusetts and a public option in Maine.

The founding fathers knew the Constitution would have to be changed. That's why they created Article 5. What's wrong with amending the Constutution? Would you rather the government be able to do anything they wanted (think Bush here)? The people and their representatives vote, and if the people wish to change their Constitution, then it is changed.

And I end with a question: What unconstitutional laws, have they not been passed, would have left us in a "mess?"

[eyeball138]

Apparently, not everyone wants insurance. A portion of the uninsured people are people making over $70,000 a year; plenty of money for some type of insurance, but they choose not to. If they don't want to buy insurance, who are we to force them?

I'm sticking with my claim that we have the best health care in the world. Whenever you rank things, you need certain criteria, and the criteria used by certain groups put us low on the list, but with the criteria that I feel is important, America comes out on top.

What criteria are those, and where did you find that information?

[blue cobra]

Where did I get that information that some people make over $70,000 a year and choose not to buy insurance? I had heard it from several news sources, but, just for you, I went and found a link . Page 4 of this PDF. There are people who feel they don't need insurance, and it is their right to choose not to buy it.

What are the criteria I used for judging the US's system as best? Again, that is my opinion. I didn't sit down one night and formulate algorithms for ranking health care. Man, it seems these days you have to label everything that comes out of your mouth, "in my opinion." None of this is directed specifically at you, but of course it's my opinion, it's coming out of my mouth. Just like if I said the PS3 was better than the 360-that's my opinion. Deer tacos are better than cow tacos-also my opinion.